Have you done it before? If it's the first time it's a good idea to have someone around to lend you a hand (if you need one). In my case I was talking to a friend (Pedro) by whatsapp, so he was giving me advice in real time (better than fake time) without even being there. I could also send him photos of the project. Technology always amazes me. So Inter, tell us about you experience at Test the Best. Like!
Well, It was another great event for the Test organizers at Cercedilla, there were plenty of activities, enjoyable great landscapes around us, and as far as my visit to the event is concerned it´s always good business to allow riders an hour test on any bike (from many available) out there. It´s a shame I was late to apply for big stuff, but since I had neither ridden a 27.5er nor a full suspension bike, I was just off the boat looking forward for the entry level Quer Peak 27.5 inch first, then the Kross Earth 1.0 full suspension turn. Anyways, at the end it was not just a two hour test but almost a 4 hour one!. It turned out both models I was looking for - from Qüer and Kross- had the same distributor in the Event, which I started to speak with to be offered a longer test-ride, making a "little & subtle" change: The Qüer CXR 27.5" Carbon instead of the Peak Aluminium model. Great and friendly people, I inmediately felt like at home. ;-) They passed the buck on to me... well, I meant to say the bike! I didn´t know where I was but could go wherever I wished... then found out a nearby guided group with Giant stuff ready to be put to the test and I asked the guide leader to join since they were apparently about to ride the longer of the two routes determined by the organization. In a blink of an eye I was tailgating them all through the Cercedilla´s magnificent forests...Yihaaaaa!!!. :baile What I really wanted to know was how well going big wheel and/or full suspension is in terms of forgiveness for lack of technique when it comes to downhill riding, and what a difference they make if any, compared to 26" hardtails. I´d have liked to test a niner but I didn´t have the time to make it happen. Anyways I have some conclusive data. I reckon the efficiency difference is HUGE for those riding full suspension - my Kross Earth seemed capable of almost everything! - and SLIGHTLY BETTER - As you gain confidence- but not big deal for 27.5", so I´d dare to say any BETTER for 29". It should definitely make your bike ride better... And the question, as Jorge says, reminds: What the hell you get when you combine the stability and control of 29-inch wheels and a full sus system? Well, I had the opportunity to go side to side with 10 people riding on such combination and man, rate of climb, cruising speed, downhill speed, top speed, operating speed, and average speed seemed really good to me but again, would need any further scientific proof of what caused them to ride this way ;-) With that being said and having descended as never before, I DO reaffim I´m just a XC rider. If not, I would inmediately buy a 26, 27.5 or 29 inch full suspension bike. Enduro or All-Mountain game is a personal preference that I don´t like that much, but if you do and you are considered to be a serious biker, bumpy and technical downhill trails require the suspension not being your legs!!!. Solid as a rock, nice and good components on it, here it is, the hassle-free carbon framed Qüer CXR 27.5". Loved that bike for Cross Country (my cup of tea!) and beyond purposes such like those on the race side, XC race.(http://www.bicicletasquer.com/bici.php?id=3). A truly well done, excellent and beautiful spanish bike. A fast light one that seems to be made to last forever. Not so well known among full suspension lovers, but effective as hell in a wider range of situations, I´ve got the power on my side for downhill sections!, here it is, the Kross Earth 1.0 from Poland. It forgave me for every mistake I made going down "fast" on steep hills. It ate them all. Descending is a lot easier and more fun!. For the first time I was confident about my skills!(http://www.kross.pl/es/2013/mtb-xcm/earth-1-0) Both bikes are about the same price, which is +- 1.600-1.700 euros and if I had to choose between them, I´d probably go for the Qüer. The full suspension model from Kross overpassed my expectations, I was mesmerized with its effectiveness, shocked when I realized how fast I was descending over roots and stones. But lads, you know, 4 now I´m a Xc rider and I could tell that not so specialized hardtail was made with care and detail. A lot of less tough work for it too!!! ;-) Cheers!
Hey, sounds (and looks) like you had a good ride. If you're into XC the Quer doesn't seem bad, even though it isn't a prestigious brand, but they're making upper end (full carbon) bikes. You're right about what you say about full sus bikes: you feel safer going downhill, at least I do. The bike is stabler and easier to control, and more forgiving of your mistakes. The suspension set up on the Kross looks odd, but I'm sure it works fine! It's curious that you'd choose the Quer when you were obviously impressed by the full sus. If you got the Kross you could probably come along with us on our Sunday rides. Today we went to the Sierra Pobre: Horcajuelo, Montejo, Puerto del Cardoso, Pico Tres Provincias, Cascada Litueros, Horcajuelo. Most of the ride was on dirt roads, yet a few parts were technical, like in the pic. The views were spectacular!
Wow! Spectacular photo of you from the heights! Where else could you be on a Sunday but near the clouds!? :rabbit It´s funny: If we compare the background of your photo and mine, we could think of different countries but it was the same mountains we were riding over, me standing a lot, lot, lot, on the west side thou ;-) I like uncommon brands. The more competitors there are out there, the greater the competition is. I knew you´d find it weird, but seriously it´s the Qüer the one I´d go for. I just found it was set up nicely, everything worked superb and it´s easier to maintain. It´s a robust bike. When it comes to reliability I found the Kross several points behind. If I were into Enduro, a full suspension bike would be mandatory to me. There was a funny oxymoron in my mind when I realized how well I was performing on the Kross but had to agree to disagree on whether I should or shouldn´t go for a more demanding step in technical cycling that is Enduro. I enjoyed the Kross a lot, its full suspension made a deep impression on me, I was able to descend as never before over natural obstacles in a very fast but convenient and safer way...The problem with it all is that I don´t like enduro that much, or at least I don´t like it as much as cross country counterpart. Otherwise I would be thinking of buying a dual boinger. ;-)
Hey, don't want to rain on your parade, but the Quer was full carbon, right? I know the industry is really pushing carbon, the same way they're pushing 29ers, but don't know if it really lives up to the hype. I say that because an acquaintance on mine has broken his carbon frame about four times (actually it was the rear triangle on his boing boing). Granted he does pretty hard core enduro, but I still have my doubts about that type of frame on mountain bikes, unless of course you do hard core XC and every ounce counts, and you don't crash too much, ha ha. Actually, having a fat wallet, I'd get a top-of-the-line XC bike, and then race Jorge! Ha ha ha. But as my pockets aren't particularly deep, I go for durable before light. It's a new bike, how was it unreliable? Not sure what you mean by that. Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean, the full suspension is making your life easier and safer, wouldn't want that. Ha ha, hey, just winding you up a bit. Actually a hardtail forces you to learn better technique because it's less forgiving. In any case, here's another pic of me going down the Pico de las Tres Provincias. Really nice views from up there, tho I have to admit it was on the cold side. It was fairly windy and we basically had on summer garb. But my fellow riders told that in the middle of summer it's so freaking hot up there that you fry. By the way, you can see the A-1 in the pic. We rode down and saw the Cascada Litueros, which is right off km 91 of the motorway. Of course by the time we got there we had about five hours of riding under our belts, so it was more special for us!
Right. I do agree with you in this regard but let´s get down to it and get some data to say so. Ver el archivo adjunto 3413892 In view of this chart, I´d dare to say it´s rather clear why it´s not a bad idea to differentiate between cycling modalities in order to decide which material is the best option for each of these modalities and everything is pointing to you being right. Road bikes are mostly about weight and carbon is on the top of the list for creating a lightweigh tho aluminium framed roadies are better in terms of permanent deformation and way much better against impact damage, but fatigue life, corrosion and stiffness are leaning clearly towards carbon. That said, notice that a carbon frame isn´t always lighter. Weight also depends on construction methods, but generally speaking carbon fiber frame could be the way to go on buying a road bike, tho I´m almost certain 0.8/1/1.2 Kg makes little difference to the average cyclist. This is something that I have to scientifically check out. Anyways, enduro is just the other way around, aluminium seems to have the edge over carbon if we consider how important it is to make a bike out of impact or deformation-proof material. And yeah, Cross Country is in nowhere land: I found the Qüer all right framed for pedaling over easy (and sporadically over not so easy) trails, but XC aluminium framed bikes are OK as well. Actually it all depends on the tendency the rider has, so never piss off a frame at first glance! Why did I say that I found the full suspension not so reliable? Hey! I can see through you!!! Nothing to do with full sus bikes I guess but the Kross I was testing wasn´t properly adjusted, as the chain rubbed in some gear combinations and the rear shock absorber made some weird sounds when full compressed. Besides, the Qüer was so robust and well adjusted (also better components in it) that compared to those problems on the Kross was a rock solid bike. You could tell it. That´s why I say I´d rather go for a solid and much more simple bike in terms of maintenance if I´m just a XC biker ;-). Anyhow, nothing was wrong with the Earth model but with some adjustments on the specific model I was testing, such as the shock absorber low air pressure. Enduro bikes need to be quality bikes and yeah I´m under the impression that your Orbea Rallon is tougher than the Earth I tested, tho I have no further arguments but the comparation between the photos of the two together. ;-) Hey man! He did it once again: I would congrat the photographer that took all the pictures!!!: That´s a spectacular photo he has captured!!! :aplauso2
That chart's a bit confusing. For example, the black line's weight, so my first impression is that carbon is the heaviest, then aluminum, then steel. So it must be the other way around. Looks like the order for stiffness is steel, carbon, aluminum. And a very important characteristic for our sport is impact resistance: best to worst is steel, aluminum, carbon. But like you say, everything stands out in one area, so everything has a place. My objection is when people imply that a certain type of bike is best for everyone, like carbon frames or 29ers. There were certain advances that really revolutionized mountain bikes, like front forks, I mean they're pretty much universal now. Rear suspension too, tho obviously it's not for everyone. I'd say hydaulic disc brakes was another major step forward, yet they haven't found their way onto road bikes. In any case, I'm not sure carbon fiber frames and 29er are true game changers in the mountain bike arena, but they're good for certain types of riding. I really have to thank Pedro for the pics. Thanks Pedro!!
Indeed, instead of weight it should say weightlessness! If it wasn´t for its heavyweight and corrosion (much less of a problem in not humid, dry places) , steel would be a must to have. Titanium and magnesium are so different. Whereas weight is not a problem for magnesium (everything else kinda disappointing), titanium is almost perfect but in price and weight. Horses for courses.
I think just looking at the material is rather narrow-minded nowadays. They seem to have numerous ways of manipulating tubes, making them stiff in some parts and flexy in others. It used to be that steel bikes were lively and comfortable and alu bikes were stiff race bikes. My Orange P7 wasnt really lively. (The CEN rules made them add a lot of material and killed the frame). My Alu chumba has a lot of worked tubes and has a bit of comforting give in it. This was the same as my PACE 305 (but that was made of cheese). I used to have a Ti bike, it was light and springy. Very expensive though.
Hey Mackem!!! Your cheese framed bike was way expensive than futuristic bikes! http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/1...-cardboard-bicycle-that-can-change-the-world/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txSboSNQINs ;-)
Yeah, you make a good point Mackem. I suppose the way you treat the material can change its characteristics, at least somewhat. I imagine a really expensive carbon fiber frame is significantly better than a lower-end one. Remember the Martyn Ashton video? (below is case you want to see it again.) In any case, if you compare bikes of the same price, for example a 2,000 euro aluminum enduro bike with a 2,000 euro carbon fiber one, I'll take the former every time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZmJtYaUTa0 Can there really be a market for cardboard bikes? I suppose we'll find out. Did you know there's still snow in the mountains?
it's an interesting argument i'd rather say, full-sus, construction materials.... perhaps a bit later with a cup of tea just to make myself clear, but hell! you are pretty well informed hence it'll be a knackering task even to cut in edgeways. I'm impressed on how ridiculous and pompous I sound
Wow June and still snow on the top of the hills!!! Hey! You seem to sound pompous every night after taking your medicine! Is it really a cup of tea what you are talking about?! ;-) Bigsome, a friend of us who is getting into road biking, is about to buy a KTM Strada 3500 road bike. He commutes to work on a steel framed bike, so there is a big change for him coming up! Cheers!
Well, it's gratifying to hear that people are buying bikes, and good ones at that, even in these troubled times. Just goes to show that biking is a way of life for many. It has to be pretty high up on the list of priorities to justify such an expense these days. Frankly, for me bikes are oxygen for the soul, it's my moon and my Everest, the shining sea on a summer's evening. As you can see I'm trying hard to win the ridiculous and pompous contest :mrgreen: In any case, coming back down to earth, today I put on my mechanic's hat and bled the rear brake on my Rallon. Hate to see my bike bleed but had to do it, ha ha, did it for its own good :twisted: I'm happy to say that it went without a hitch, was pretty lucky cos was the first time I'd done it. I watched a how-to video about ten times first, so that helped. I remember just a few years ago I read bike manuals to figure these things out, so much easier now thanks to the wonders of technology! Hurray for technology! I just know you'd love to see a picture of the underside of my Rallon, so here it is! (sorry it's a bit out of focus.)
Well done! She deserves it if you want to keep her usable in extreme conditions in the dirt!. It´s a hard life for the average MTB compared to roadies, even tougher for enduro bikes. It´s funny how top road bikes are worth more than top enduro bikes when they are primarily aimed to just reduce weight (one aim), cause enduro bikes are designed with at least two aims in mind: being tough and reducing weight. Hey! Anyone thinking of become a poet? Poets turn pomposity to their advantage! ;-)
So are you saying that top road bikes cost more than top enduro bikes? You'd think the latter would cost more cos you get the expense of the shock absorbers, and believe me they're expensive. So what's the best way to deal with cattle? I usually just go by them slowly and quietly, but the guy in front of me was shouting at them.
Welcome, Pool. Chain "the matador" Ring saying "Where can I have put my red cape, where the hell can I have put it"!!! ;-)
